Hi fellows,
I plan to buy a new camera soon, and I suddenly realized that one
basic decision I have to make is whether I buy a PAL or NTSC model.
Consider the following:
1. I am buying the camera for some shoots I plan to do late this year
and early next year. These shoots are in China (PAL), HK (PAL),
Marshall Islands (NTSC) and other US territories, and of course,
Manila (NTSC).
2. I will post it here in Manila, but thats irrelevant - we can edit
PAL and NTSC with no issues.
3. My work will be shown in both PAL and NTSC countries, but most of
the time the playback is on a laptop (maybe 80-90%), and the rest on
DVD. Once in a while there is a conference where they show it on a
screen with a DVD player.
4. Probably NO CHANCE of playback on BROADCAST. IF there IS a chance,
it will be broadcast in Chinese television which is PAL.
5. I dont want to buy an expensive am that supports BOTH framerates.
Not only that, it is EASIER for me to purchase a PAL model at this
point.
SOME QUESTIONS:
1. Considering this situation, DOES THE STANDARD MATTER? I have been
shooting NTSC forever, and they have been playing it in China/HK with
no questions. I wonder if the reverse is true, meaning will the US
market be able to deal with PAL material as transparently as the
Chinese?
2. If I buy the PAL model, does this transcode nicely into 29.97 fps,
in the event that I absolutely have to provide an NTSC framerate? If I
buy the NTSC model, will this convert to 25fps as well? Or with the
results look like crap either way?
3. If I buy PAL, is this a poor mans' 24 fps, and therefore poor
man's "film look"? Do we have to shoot following "film-rules" to avoid
stuttering/strobing during pans?
Anyway, hope you fellows have the time to chime in here.
Randy what you want is an ATSC model....LOL...24 frame 1080p and you can transcode the footage however you want (Pal, NTSC, Blu-Ray....whatever).
Steve.
________________________________
From: Randy Quimpo <randy.qui...@gmail.com>
To: dv-l@googlegroups.com
Sent: Thu, November 19, 2009 12:21:04 AM
Subject: [DV-L] Buying new cam - PAL or NTSC (not obvious)
Hi fellows,
I plan to buy a new camera soon, and I suddenly realized that one
basic decision I have to make is whether I buy a PAL or NTSC model.
Consider the following:
1. I am buying the camera for some shoots I plan to do late this year
and early next year. These shoots are in China (PAL), HK (PAL),
Marshall Islands (NTSC) and other US territories, and of course,
Manila (NTSC).
2. I will post it here in Manila, but thats irrelevant - we can edit
PAL and NTSC with no issues.
3. My work will be shown in both PAL and NTSC countries, but most of
the time the playback is on a laptop (maybe 80-90%), and the rest on
DVD. Once in a while there is a conference where they show it on a
screen with a DVD player.
4. Probably NO CHANCE of playback on BROADCAST. IF there IS a chance,
it will be broadcast in Chinese television which is PAL.
5. I dont want to buy an expensive am that supports BOTH framerates.
Not only that, it is EASIER for me to purchase a PAL model at this
point.
SOME QUESTIONS:
1. Considering this situation, DOES THE STANDARD MATTER? I have been
shooting NTSC forever, and they have been playing it in China/HK with
no questions. I wonder if the reverse is true, meaning will the US
market be able to deal with PAL material as transparently as the
Chinese?
2. If I buy the PAL model, does this transcode nicely into 29.97 fps,
in the event that I absolutely have to provide an NTSC framerate? If I
buy the NTSC model, will this convert to 25fps as well? Or with the
results look like crap either way?
3. If I buy PAL, is this a poor mans' 24 fps, and therefore poor
man's "film look"? Do we have to shoot following "film-rules" to avoid
stuttering/strobing during pans?
Anyway, hope you fellows have the time to chime in here.
rgds/ RandyQ
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In order of your questions:
1) The problem is the TV - many US TVs did not play PAL. Playing on a
computer is no problem and the DVD is universal by design.
2) Transcoding 25-30 is still a major problem. These days you can do it
badly on any computer or fairly well with some more sophisticated software
that does motion interpolation (for instance in After Effects). Whether this
looks crap is down to the viewer but more significantly the material!
3) True PAL is 50i - that is 50fields/sec interlaced. This looks very
similar to interlaced NTSC for motion but the frame has more resolution.
Many modern cameras can shoot progressive or 25p for PAL which as you say is
similar to 24fps for motion rendering. 'Film-rules' will then certainly help
with reducing judder and most folks prefer a 1/50 shutter to reduce motion
blur. An alternate 1/60 shutter will help with lighting flicker in 60Hz
power areas.
Shooting PAL in USA was quite popular amongst guerrilla film makers; I say
was because I assume most have graduated to HD. Shooting video at 24fps is
easier with HD kit so I guess the habit has died.
Anyways - good luck with your choice Randy, hope this helps a tad
Perry
1. Considering this situation, DOES THE STANDARD MATTER? I have been
shooting NTSC forever, and they have been playing it in China/HK with
no questions. I wonder if the reverse is true, meaning will the US
market be able to deal with PAL material as transparently as the
Chinese?
2. If I buy the PAL model, does this transcode nicely into 29.97 fps,
in the event that I absolutely have to provide an NTSC framerate? If I
buy the NTSC model, will this convert to 25fps as well? Or with the
results look like crap either way?
3. If I buy PAL, is this a poor mans' 24 fps, and therefore poor
man's "film look"? Do we have to shoot following "film-rules" to avoid
stuttering/strobing during pans?
Anyway, hope you fellows have the time to chime in here.
Randy, your int'l experience is wider than mine but I have found that NTSC countries are much less flexible. Very few, if any, normal people/offices have AV gear that can play PAL. On the other hand, in every PAL country I have been to, it seemed everyone had TVs/VCRs that could play both NTSC and PAL. When I commented on it, 'normal' people (as in, not production people), didn't even seem to realize they were using two systems -- they just stick everything in the machine, and it plays correctly.
Therefore, if it were me, I'd shoot and produce in NTSC.
Randy Quimpo wrote:
> Hi fellows,
> I plan to buy a new camera soon, and I suddenly realized that one
> basic decision I have to make is whether I buy a PAL or NTSC model.
> Consider the following:
> 1. I am buying the camera for some shoots I plan to do late this year
> and early next year. These shoots are in China (PAL), HK (PAL),
> Marshall Islands (NTSC) and other US territories, and of course,
> Manila (NTSC).
> 2. I will post it here in Manila, but thats irrelevant - we can edit
> PAL and NTSC with no issues.
> 3. My work will be shown in both PAL and NTSC countries, but most of
> the time the playback is on a laptop (maybe 80-90%), and the rest on
> DVD. Once in a while there is a conference where they show it on a
> screen with a DVD player.
> 4. Probably NO CHANCE of playback on BROADCAST. IF there IS a chance,
> it will be broadcast in Chinese television which is PAL.
> 5. I dont want to buy an expensive am that supports BOTH framerates.
> Not only that, it is EASIER for me to purchase a PAL model at this
> point.
> SOME QUESTIONS:
> 1. Considering this situation, DOES THE STANDARD MATTER? I have been
> shooting NTSC forever, and they have been playing it in China/HK with
> no questions. I wonder if the reverse is true, meaning will the US
> market be able to deal with PAL material as transparently as the
> Chinese?
> 2. If I buy the PAL model, does this transcode nicely into 29.97 fps,
> in the event that I absolutely have to provide an NTSC framerate? If I
> buy the NTSC model, will this convert to 25fps as well? Or with the
> results look like crap either way?
> 3. If I buy PAL, is this a poor mans' 24 fps, and therefore poor
> man's "film look"? Do we have to shoot following "film-rules" to avoid
> stuttering/strobing during pans?
> Anyway, hope you fellows have the time to chime in here.
> rgds/ RandyQ
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "DV-L" group.
> To post to this group, send email to dv-l@googlegroups.com.
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Hi Tim,
Haha, its been four hours since you posted this, and I have come to
the same conclusion!
US, Japan, Philippines - NTSC matters
China and HK (PAL system) - doesn't care what system you use there. In
fact I set up shop there shooting NTSC for years and today nobody is
the wiser.
So its better to have an NTSC system, even if my main business now is
in China and not in the US!
Thanks for the input guys! Nice to see the old gang is still around.
On Thu, Nov 19, 2009 at 8:00 PM, Tim Selander <selan...@tkf.att.ne.jp> wrote:
> Randy, your int'l experience is wider than mine but I have found
> that NTSC countries are much less flexible. Very few, if any,
> normal people/offices have AV gear that can play PAL. On the
> other hand, in every PAL country I have been to, it seemed
> everyone had TVs/VCRs that could play both NTSC and PAL. When I
> commented on it, 'normal' people (as in, not production people),
> didn't even seem to realize they were using two systems -- they
> just stick everything in the machine, and it plays correctly.
> Therefore, if it were me, I'd shoot and produce in NTSC.
> FWIW
> Tim Selander
> Tokyo, Japan
> Randy Quimpo wrote:
>> Hi fellows,
>> I plan to buy a new camera soon, and I suddenly realized that one
>> basic decision I have to make is whether I buy a PAL or NTSC model.
>> Consider the following:
>> 1. I am buying the camera for some shoots I plan to do late this year
>> and early next year. These shoots are in China (PAL), HK (PAL),
>> Marshall Islands (NTSC) and other US territories, and of course,
>> Manila (NTSC).
>> 2. I will post it here in Manila, but thats irrelevant - we can edit
>> PAL and NTSC with no issues.
>> 3. My work will be shown in both PAL and NTSC countries, but most of
>> the time the playback is on a laptop (maybe 80-90%), and the rest on
>> DVD. Once in a while there is a conference where they show it on a
>> screen with a DVD player.
>> 4. Probably NO CHANCE of playback on BROADCAST. IF there IS a chance,
>> it will be broadcast in Chinese television which is PAL.
>> 5. I dont want to buy an expensive am that supports BOTH framerates.
>> Not only that, it is EASIER for me to purchase a PAL model at this
>> point.
>> SOME QUESTIONS:
>> 1. Considering this situation, DOES THE STANDARD MATTER? I have been
>> shooting NTSC forever, and they have been playing it in China/HK with
>> no questions. I wonder if the reverse is true, meaning will the US
>> market be able to deal with PAL material as transparently as the
>> Chinese?
>> 2. If I buy the PAL model, does this transcode nicely into 29.97 fps,
>> in the event that I absolutely have to provide an NTSC framerate? If I
>> buy the NTSC model, will this convert to 25fps as well? Or with the
>> results look like crap either way?
>> 3. If I buy PAL, is this a poor mans' 24 fps, and therefore poor
>> man's "film look"? Do we have to shoot following "film-rules" to avoid
>> stuttering/strobing during pans?
>> Anyway, hope you fellows have the time to chime in here.
>> rgds/ RandyQ
>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "DV-L" group.
>> To post to this group, send email to dv-l@googlegroups.com.
>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to dv-l+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
>> For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/dv-l?hl=.
> --
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Hi Perry,
I realize now that my question has more to do with the rise of China
(and the decline of the US), rather than the PAL/NTSC video standards
. Not long ago during the early days of DV-L, we would develop our
videos for an american audience, and did a sloppy translation into
Chinese using a moonlighting Chinese academic as a cheap
translator/voice talent.
Today I write scripts in "Chinese English", which is English, but
deliberately done to mimic the sentence structures of Chinese in order
to make translation easy. Then I have a professional write a new
script, not a translation, and a broadcast professional in Shenzen
record the voiceover. Not only that, our clients demand Chinese
graphics as well - so I do bilingual graphics now. And in fact I have
begun to make videos where the English is only to guide the edit - the
main release is in Chinese. Times are very, very different from years
past.
But when it comes to video standards, the Chinese seem to be agnostic
and support everything, so no need to buy PAL if its for this reason.
As I told TIm earlier, looks like the answer is to buy NTSC. I'm going
to order that camera now...
On Thu, Nov 19, 2009 at 5:17 PM, Perry <perry.mitch...@gmail.com> wrote:
> In order of your questions:
> 1) The problem is the TV - many US TVs did not play PAL. Playing on a
> computer is no problem and the DVD is universal by design.
> 2) Transcoding 25-30 is still a major problem. These days you can do it
> badly on any computer or fairly well with some more sophisticated software
> that does motion interpolation (for instance in After Effects). Whether this
> looks crap is down to the viewer but more significantly the material!
> 3) True PAL is 50i - that is 50fields/sec interlaced. This looks very
> similar to interlaced NTSC for motion but the frame has more resolution.
> Many modern cameras can shoot progressive or 25p for PAL which as you say is
> similar to 24fps for motion rendering. 'Film-rules' will then certainly help
> with reducing judder and most folks prefer a 1/50 shutter to reduce motion
> blur. An alternate 1/60 shutter will help with lighting flicker in 60Hz
> power areas.
> Shooting PAL in USA was quite popular amongst guerrilla film makers; I say
> was because I assume most have graduated to HD. Shooting video at 24fps is
> easier with HD kit so I guess the habit has died.
> Anyways - good luck with your choice Randy, hope this helps a tad
> Perry
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Randy Quimpo
> SOME QUESTIONS:
> 1. Considering this situation, DOES THE STANDARD MATTER? I have been
> shooting NTSC forever, and they have been playing it in China/HK with
> no questions. I wonder if the reverse is true, meaning will the US
> market be able to deal with PAL material as transparently as the
> Chinese?
> 2. If I buy the PAL model, does this transcode nicely into 29.97 fps,
> in the event that I absolutely have to provide an NTSC framerate? If I
> buy the NTSC model, will this convert to 25fps as well? Or with the
> results look like crap either way?
> 3. If I buy PAL, is this a poor mans' 24 fps, and therefore poor
> man's "film look"? Do we have to shoot following "film-rules" to avoid
> stuttering/strobing during pans?
> Anyway, hope you fellows have the time to chime in here.
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "DV-L" group.
> To post to this group, send email to dv-l@googlegroups.com.
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to dv-l+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
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